You don't fight the oppression of women by restricting women's freedom.

Couldn't agree more. Not the kind of move I would expect from Switzerland.

Yeah, I'm glad there's laws against people trying to oppress themselves. Even in America, you couldn't be an actual slave if you wanted to because of the legal ramifications. Good move on Switzerland to fix this social issue. They can still practice oppressing themselves at home, which is only fair. Nobody should be forced to deal with others beliefs.

I disagree. I don't think that seeing someone in public wearing a religious garment is the same thing as being forced to deal with someone's beliefs. That to me is an exaggeration, we can see something we disagree with without having to be personally offended or having our day ruined by it. I disagree with islamic ideology but I think they should be allowed to express their beliefs however they want. As long as they aren't physically hurting anyone or harassing people about it. Federally banning clothing, any type of clothing is a bad move imo. It's damaging to personal liberty and I would hope Switzerland overturns this eventually. No hard feelings but I gotta give a hard no on your take for me, brother.

Honestly I think if you really genuinely wanted to you SHOULD be allowed to be an actual slave or effectively, as long as you can always leave or stop it whenever you want and you aren't being forced. Frick it. If a man (or woman) wants to live in another man's (or woman's) guest house or a shack in the backyard or whatever and do whatever that other person wants with harsh punishments or whatever, with no payment. Then for me fine. That's weird as crap, but as long as both people want it and again can get out of the situation whenever they want/say no to certain things when uncomfortable (which I suppose makes it not really slavery when you think about it) then I have absolutely no problem with it. I know many Muslim women in places like the US and Switzerland are oppressed by their husbands, maybe were born in an oppressive Islamic country, who would like to get out but can't; but on the other hand there are more progressive Muslim families out there where the women are treated respectfully that do have a choice in what they do. Some of these women do chose to wear these garments and do identify strongly with that aspect of their culture. The Islamic religion and these oppressive Middle Eastern regimes both need to be either reformed or recreated this is true, but whenever a country says "No you people can't wear that here" that is a problem.

Edit: Removed a few curse words.

So in not so many words lol. I disagree with you too man. Sorry about the thesis of a response lol. I've just been thinking about this particular topic a lot since I heard about it. I can kind of see how someone comes to your conclusion, but it just doesn't seem logical to me. Wish you the best <3

Well, I guess it doesn't matter what your opinion is in this case because it's law. And there's nothing you can do anything about it.

See I disagree here as well. Law can be overturned. Sure i am not a Swiss citizen so you are right, I do not have much if any influence over this scenario. But something being law doesn't make it right, does it? Gay marriage used to be illegal, so was it wrong then? What about women and African Americans not being able to vote? that was law. Something was done about it. I think everybody is entitled to an opinion, even if you don't have much influence your opinion is valid as even adding a bad opinion to the conversation adds something to consider. And I think discussing things like this, things that are happening in other places that don't effect us (Americans) is worth doing as well. It's good to talk about this stuff so we are prepared something similar comes up in our neck of the woods. Sorry friend, but you are appearing more and more close-minded. At least to me idk. Have a good one Holmes.

Oh I thought you were referring to my comment at first. Previous message still stands regardless.

So when you disagree with the law you are supportive of its revision, but when someone criticizes the revision, you resort to the defense that law is absolute. Even for the keyhero fora I would expect better.

I wish I could upvote this!

Yeah I'm sorry but that is the dumbest response one could possibly fathom after reading my response. Maybe there's an argument you could make, but it's the law so there's nothing anyone can do is not one of them. Lol laws get changed and overturned every day. Law is not the end all be all of ethics or morality and it also isn't static. So I dunno what you're on about. Hope your day was good though!

I'm sorry. That is not the "absolute dumbest response I could imagine" that wasn't right. Still disagree lol

yep.
Needs at least 15 characters. I just wanted to say yep

I couldn't put into words why I didn't agree, but what you said sounds pretty good to me.

yep.
Once again I agree. lol

People should do as they please. As simple as. If it causes no harm to others then it is alright. If a woman wearing a niqab/burqa bothers you or affects you at all, that is simply your own problem. I find it funny that the people who get offended or disrupted by these religious garments are the same people that ostracize others that get offended over "things that aren't politically correct.' It's back and forth, back and forth. Grow up, people. Let people live their life. It isn't up to you to decide whether or not someone is oppressed or not, it's up to that person themselves.

Agree or Disagree
Life is a cunt. We were born to die.

See I still think this stuff is worth discussion. I used to feel that way, used to be very nihilistic, nothing matters we all die in the end. That sort of thing. After taking psychedelics a lot especially in high school and still occasionally now (not so much once or twice every 6 months or more) I realized that although that is true and we all end up back where we started, it's still very important to cherish the world around us and to want and discuss what's best for it.
Edit: by back where we started I don't mean reincarnation or anything I just mean back to not existing anymore. At least here I guess. Idk.

It's pretty apparent that mandating a woman cover herself in such an incredibly modest way is sexist. It tells the woman that her whole body is sexualized and there is no responsibility of the male to get used to it. It puts most of the burden on her to change, not on him.

But agree with the others in this thread that women should be able to choose to adopt a sexist ideology and wear whatever religious garb they want. It's just sad to see. I wish that a society making that change wouldn't be as flagrantly xenophobic as it is in this case and it actually encouraged leaving a sexist, illogical ideology. But it does not.

See I think the only way Islam will ever be reformed to a point where it isn't horribly sexist is if the western world becomes more accepting of Muslims. It takes time and these ideas are so deeply engrained in these peoples hearts and lives. I think right now the thing to do is be accepting of their culture, welcome them into our communities and treat them with respect. If we do that and make a conscious effort to support the people who need it in these middle eastern countries then I think the ideology will change on it's own as we all modernize and come to understand each other. I know anecdotally where I'm from (a little suburb in southern Ohio) I had a few first generation Muslim friends whose families came here and started to slowly back down on a lot of the ideology in their own household as they were embraced by and in turn embraced some of the more lenient/progressive aspects of our culture. That just needs to happen on mass scale.

I also am not interested or after a complete eradication of the religion. I'm agnostic/atheist but I believe in the importance of religion for many people and do not believe religion makes you inherently ignorant or anything. I do want to see the aspects of that religion that cause hatred and oppression of freedom (primarily with women obviously) fizzle out. But I think the world would be worse off if every unique aspect of Islamic culture went away.